{"id":1526,"date":"2019-06-26T14:14:26","date_gmt":"2019-06-26T14:14:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/?p=1526"},"modified":"2019-06-26T14:21:04","modified_gmt":"2019-06-26T14:21:04","slug":"yomi-and-tobi-in-conversation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/2019\/06\/26\/yomi-and-tobi-in-conversation\/","title":{"rendered":"Yomi and Tobi in conversation"},"content":{"rendered":"

Jawdance host\u00a0and Apples and Snakes favourite Yomi <\/strong>\u1e62ode <\/strong>has been selected as a Jerwood Compton Poetry Fellow alongside\u00a0Hafsah Aneela Bashir<\/strong> and Anthony Joseph<\/strong>. Each of\u00a0the recipients receives\u00a0\u00a315,000 plus a year of critical support and mentoring with no expectation that they produce a particular work or outcome. Yomi sat down with our London Producer and newly appointed Senior Artistic Associate at Bush Theatre Tobi Kyeremateng<\/strong> to enjoy a couple of Old Fashioneds and discuss all things spoken word.<\/em><\/p>\n

When we talk about artists we often talk about individuals, people toiling in isolation but how much does community matter to you and your practice?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> It matters. When I premiered COAT at Roundhouse, I was also doing COAT Sessions with emerging artists. They\u2019d perform after COAT for the audience as a kind of, \u201cIf you like my work, how about you take in the works of these folks\u201d.<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>That\u2019s where I came across Gboyega [Odubanjo] actually.<\/p>\n

I\u2019d never negate a community approach because it\u2019s all I\u2019ve ever known.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> Sick, that group; Gboyega Odubanjo, Aliyah Hasinah, Shade Joseph, Marvell Fayose, Rue Gumbochuma, Abu Yillah. That opportunity\u2019s important to the group; the Roundhouse came across Shade that night, which led to her doing her scratch there the following year. That\u2019s what happens when you occupy a space and try to build community. If that\u2019s not nurtured or worked on the scene\u2019s going to be docile, insular. It\u2019s not going to open the floodgates to people who have great work to share. What\u2019s your take?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>I\u2019ve always been a big fan of poetry. I always talk about how grateful I am to be accepted into the poetry community. I feel like I always say that after a Jawdance<\/a>! I also feel this community houses more intergenerational conversations, which I\u2019m grateful for every time I sit and chat with Roger [Robinson]. There\u2019s no other space in which I have an older person, other than my Dad, that I chat to like this. I don\u2019t know how to work alone. I can\u2019t do it. I physically can\u2019t do it. Community has always been a massive thing to me. I wouldn\u2019t be able to do my job properly if I wasn\u2019t immersed in the community; it wouldn\u2019t make sense for me to want to champion the artform without understanding the reasons behind why people do this work in the first place.<\/p>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> I\u2019d never negate a community approach because it\u2019s all I\u2019ve ever known. There wouldn\u2019t be a BoxedIn<\/a> without community. I\u2019ve always wanted to be going to gigs, supporting people, pushing them online \u2013 I enjoy doing it. It\u2019s nothing forced, I enjoy going to support people.<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>I remember the first open mic I ever produced at Battersea Arts Centre it was such a bad event! Theresa Lola came and it was the first time she\u2019d read her work out in public, I think. And she started this poem and I was like, \u201cWho is this person and why is she at my little open mic on a Monday in South London?!\u201d We met each other again years later, and it came full circle. You see these people you met and started out with years ago doing great things now.<\/p>\n

What does winning the Jerwood mean to you? What opportunity does it offer?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> There\u2019s a blue-sky thinking with this so it\u2019s almost a case of what don\u2019t I ask for? I\u2019m so used to working within frames. Their approach is; tell us what you\u2019re interested in and we can try and support you with it. I\u2019m doing Arvon<\/a> in August, that\u2019s the first official thing I committed to. That was scary, it\u2019s \u00a3750, which is scary \u2013 I\u2019ve never spent that amount on any course. Ever.<\/p>\n

Tobi:<\/strong> It\u2019s an investment in yourself.<\/p>\n

I feel like there\u2019s something \u2013 as Black people \u2013 which is like an inherited, historical thing. You work as hard as you\u2019ve got to work and there\u2019s all the suffering and the pain but nothing good is meant to come of that. So when it does we\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do with this now\u201d.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> Right, but I was nervous in doing so. And I felt like I wasn\u2019t deserving of doing so \u2013 a slight imposter syndrome situation. I was just like, \u201care you sure you\u2019ve got the right person here?\u201d Part of me thinks, don\u2019t think like that, just focus on the work you need to do. But also, there is the imposter syndrome. Maybe I don\u2019t deserve this, maybe there\u2019s someone who deserves it more. My head in the last 3-4 weeks\u2026 it\u2019s not where it should be. It\u2019s going to move to a better place. I\u2019m not used to this much attention. COAT was definitely something, but this is a different beast.<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>You know what? I feel like there\u2019s something \u2013 as Black people \u2013 which is like an inherited, historical thing. You work as hard as you\u2019ve got to work and there\u2019s all the suffering and the pain but nothing good is meant to come of that. So when it does we\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do with this now\u201d. Because I know that I\u2019m meant to work hard, I know that I\u2019m meant to push myself, but in the back of my mind I\u2019m not thinking I\u2019m doing that for something good to happen, I just know that I\u2019m meant to do it. I dunno, I think that has an historical context, and in the way we have to operate in society. And so it\u2019s hard when something good happens to celebrate yourself. So it is really hard when something good happens to celebrate yourself and say, \u201cof course I deserve this, I worked really hard\u201d. For us it\u2019s like you\u2019ve got to work hard regardless of whether something good is going to happen or not. That\u2019s just life.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> Inherited from our parents?<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>Yeah, especially if you\u2019re first generation. Your parents have come to this country from another place, you have to work your arse off. It doesn\u2019t matter if there\u2019s something guaranteed at the end of it. You just have to do that. Whereas other people are allowed to have that foresight of: \u201cI\u2019m going to do this, this and this and it\u2019s going to get me that, which is what I really want. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to make me happy. So, when I get it, of course I\u2019ll celebrate it because that\u2019s what I was working towards.\u201d<\/p>\n

Yomi: <\/strong>But then it\u2019s a thing of \u2013 if you get to that point it\u2019s deemed as arrogant. American\u2019s don\u2019t care. They\u2019re more like: \u201cI\u2019m deserving of this, this is what I\u2019ll take.\u201d And I\u2019m like, at what point do I need to register with myself that I\u2019m deserving of this?<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>When you were talking about community and paying it forward \u2013 this is that being paid forward to you. People nominated you. Jerwood is your community paying it forward to you.<\/p>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> Oh gosh! Can we talk about you and your appointment at Bush for a bit? What\u2019s the job there?<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>My job there is to present artists, read scripts \u2013 they\u2019ll ask me for my opinion on things. It\u2019s that level of agency that I\u2019m not used to. So, it\u2019s scary\u2026 to be in a position in which someone is asking for your opinion and your opinion has consequences.<\/p>\n

Yomi: <\/strong>How does it differ from producing spoken word?<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>Theatre\u2019s a different industry in which the fight to get something on is gruelling in comparison to getting booked for a gig. I\u2019m not saying the fight isn\u2019t there and it\u2019s not difficult in spoken word, but for a theatre organisation to invest money and time in producing your work… it\u2019s huge. There\u2019s so much of a community in spoken word; I can book certain people and know others will benefit from that too. The amount of people who want their work to be produced by theatre companies and the amount of money available to do that, it\u2019s wild\u2026 there were 900 applications for the Bush\u2019s open script window this year. The odds are wild. It\u2019s really hard to think of that and to be in that position. The honest answer to \u2018how do I get my play produced?\u2019 is I don\u2019t know. There isn\u2019t a system that every institution follows. There\u2019s no one system, different theatres are interested in different things. But yeah, the appointment felt really weird. A lot of people have been excited for me but I haven\u2019t been excited for myself – I\u2019ve been worried! I also felt imposter syndrome massively with being nominated for and then winning it [Stylist\u2019s Inspiration of the Year Award for Black Ticket Project]. I was like, \u201cthis should feel good, and it doesn\u2019t!\u2019<\/p>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> How do we fight that? \u2018Cause in my heart of hearts, I know I\u2019m good at what I do. I read one of my poems back the other week and I was like, \u201cYo! Is that me?!\u201d So I have those proud moments but that dissipates, but at the same time I\u2019ll make all the room for others to fully feel good about their achievements. I won\u2019t gas up myself, but I\u2019ll gas you to the end of the world and back!<\/p>\n

Tobi:<\/strong> I feel like a large part of me coming to you and saying \u201cbig up yourself!\u201d, is that it\u2019s important to instil that in each other. Yes, I want you to say out loud, \u201cI deserve this thing!\u201d<\/p>\n

Where do you think the current resurgence in spoken word has come from and where can it lead to?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> That insta poet thing yeah, I\u2019d like to think there was some kind of shift when Rupi [Kaur] came into frame. I don\u2019t know if that made people think they could try it too. Social media has definitely done something via YouTube and Instagram. There will be people who have their poet that they like, that they\u2019re inspired. There are templates of poets they can see and aspire to: Hollie [McNish], Suli [Breaks], George the Poet\u2026 all of those people. I\u2019ll always feel like there are pockets of poetry. There are all these different facets.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m waiting for poetry\u2019s first NWA group<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>I\u2019d definitely say George the Poet was a moment in the resurgence. It felt like that was a moment when a whole new group of people were like, \u201cOh, maybe I can do this\u201d. I started to see more people writing and performing off of the back of his presence. And also, it pushed the idea that being a poet is cool. It used to just be dead white men you saw in your AQA anthology, now you\u2019ve got the Sulis and Georges. And it\u2019s cool now, whereas before it wasn\u2019t. You do find some wonderful people who would never have considered themselves poets ever before. Poetry is evolving, whether it\u2019s the insta poets, the poetry films, music that feels really exciting. It\u2019s become more democratic in terms of who can get involved, but there\u2019s obviously still the hierarchy of what people think is good, bad, \u201creal\u201d poetry.<\/p>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> Words First<\/a> that raised the profile to 1Xtra. I think evolution can only make it grow into something more. I\u2019m waiting for poetry\u2019s first NWA group! But how do you access new poets?<\/p>\n

Tobi:<\/strong> Online and going to nights is the main way. It\u2019s hard to find the time to go to everything though, and to feel some kind of cohesiveness between all of these different events. I don\u2019t know how many of these events share audiences, and that\u2019s really interesting.<\/p>\n

How do you know when an opportunity is yours to take?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> I don\u2019t! If the nominations to apply to Jerwood hadn\u2019t come in I don\u2019t think I\u2019d have applied. Arts Council, I didn\u2019t apply to until 2017. Some people have been applying for years. I don\u2019t know though \u2013 it\u2019s a tough one.<\/p>\n

That made me think: f*** it, I\u2019m applying for everything.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>Something that was a big turning point for me in the first year of my apprenticeship: I had a teacher who was throwing out statistics and she said that most women are only likely to apply for a job if they meet more than 90% of the criteria, whereas most men will apply if they meet 60% of it. That made me think: f*** it, I\u2019m applying for everything.<\/p>\n

Yomi: <\/strong>For me now, it\u2019s the kids \u2013 it\u2019s knowing that I need to start taking these risks otherwise there\u2019ll be a famine happening at home if I don\u2019t! So I need to get a move on. Worst case, I don\u2019t get it, at least I know I tried. They might be my kick-up-the-backside to go for something. I started doing more magazine submissions this year. I\u2019ve just gone for it, because what\u2019s the worst that could happen? It\u2019s a difficult process but doing it makes it a little bit easier.<\/p>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>Yes, the more you do it, the more you\u2019re able to do it. It\u2019s like a muscle you exercise it and you start to understand the process.<\/p>\n

How do you stay motivated, what factors enable you to persist as creatives?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>I feel like my main plea to myself is to not do things that make me unhappy. That doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that the process will be perfect, but I won\u2019t go into something knowing that it\u2019s going to make me unhappy. I say yes to things because it\u2019s something I feel passionate about. That\u2019s a driving force. People are also my main motivators; I can feel like crap all day and I see one person and that changes things.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Yomi: <\/strong>I always want to say yes to things; I wonder if I\u2019ll burn out. One thing in regards to Jerwood is that you don\u2019t have to say yes to everything now because this is here to help out, but I get that niggly \u201cI want to get involved because it sounds cool.\u201d I invest in things not just because of the pay but because it\u2019s a new experience, a new landscape, I want to explore. But it\u2019s not necessarily money, it\u2019s the experience of trying things out. But now I know I could say no. I need to be aware of my own limitations, which I ignore all the time.<\/p>\n

What’s your aim as an artist?<\/strong><\/h5>\n

Yomi:<\/strong> To write work for discussion and not for solution. I don\u2019t want to create work and people think I\u2019ve come to save the day; I want to create work to provoke. To stir a conversation to happen. I don\u2019t want to create work that is an answer to itself. I don\u2019t ever want to feel like I want to save the day with my work, but I want to feel like it\u2019s a contribution to a different thinking. And you, what\u2019s your aim in the work you\u2019re doing?<\/p>\n

I just want to see people thriving.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Tobi: <\/strong>I really don\u2019t know; I feel like everything that I\u2019ve done so far has had no strategy, it\u2019s just been me trying things. To think of myself having an aim, an overall aim, I don\u2019t know\u2026 I just want to see people thriving.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Jawdance host\u00a0and Apples and Snakes favourite Yomi \u1e62ode has been selected as a Jerwood Compton Poetry Fellow alongside\u00a0Hafsah Aneela Bashir and Anthony Joseph. Each of\u00a0the recipients receives\u00a0\u00a315,000 plus a year of critical support and mentoring with no expectation that they produce a particular work or outcome. Yomi sat down with our London Producer and newly…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":1530,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_surecart_dashboard_logo_width":"180px","_surecart_dashboard_show_logo":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_orders":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_invoices":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_subscriptions":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_downloads":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_billing":true,"_surecart_dashboard_navigation_account":true,"_kad_blocks_custom_css":"","_kad_blocks_head_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_body_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_footer_custom_js":"","_kad_post_transparent":"","_kad_post_title":"","_kad_post_layout":"","_kad_post_sidebar_id":"","_kad_post_content_style":"","_kad_post_vertical_padding":"","_kad_post_feature":"","_kad_post_feature_position":"","_kad_post_header":false,"_kad_post_footer":false,"_kad_post_classname":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[],"article_type":[9],"class_list":["post-1526","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-poets","article_type-read"],"acf":[],"taxonomy_info":{"category":[{"value":20,"label":"Poets"}],"article_type":[{"value":9,"label":"Read"}]},"featured_image_src_large":["https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/yomi-1024x682.jpg",1024,682,true],"author_info":{"display_name":"Fiona Simpson","author_link":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/author\/fiona\/"},"comment_info":0,"category_info":[{"term_id":20,"name":"Poets","slug":"poets","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":20,"taxonomy":"category","description":"","parent":0,"count":4,"filter":"raw","term_order":"0","cat_ID":20,"category_count":4,"category_description":"","cat_name":"Poets","category_nicename":"poets","category_parent":0}],"tag_info":false,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1526","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1526"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1526\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1530"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1526"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1526"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1526"},{"taxonomy":"article_type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/applesandsnakes.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/article_type?post=1526"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}